Armed with Reason: The Podcast. Episode 19 - Columbine, Now & Then
Experiencing Columbine High School as a student, and now as a teacher.
As we highlight the 25th anniversary of the Columbine High School massacre this week, we are joined for this episode by Zach Martin.
Mr. Martin was a freshman at Columbine in April 1999. Now he’s in his thirteenth year teaching there. Currently, he educates juniors and seniors in social studies, world history, and psychology. As a survivor, educator, and father, he is deeply dedicated to gun violence prevention.
“Nothing in my mind in 1999 would have made me think that there would be a continued epidemic of these types of shootings…. I think students go to school today with a very sad reality in the back of their mind that it's not an if, it's a when.”
You can listen to the podcast via our channel on Spotify as well as watch on YouTube, or read the transcription below.
We hope you’ll tune in and let us know not only what you think, but what you’d like to hear more about in the future. And if you are interested in recommending a guest, or even being one yourself, please let us know!
Given the abundance of gun violence in our country, it is critical to have the ability to discuss and advocate for a safer community. This podcast is one more way for the movement to do just that.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION:
Caitlin: Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining us today here on the Armed With Reason podcast, brought to you by GVPedia. Today is actually our season one finale, which is sort of hard to believe. And Devin and I discussed some options for the final episode of our inaugural podcast season. But given the fact that it is April and we all are well aware of the impact that the mass shooting at Columbine High School had 25 years ago on us as individuals -- but also on the gun violence prevention movement -- we knew that this guest was exactly the person to help us mark this milestone.
So today, I am honored to introduce Zach Martin, who was a freshman at Columbine High School in April of 1999. And he's now in his 13th year teaching at Columbine High School. He educates juniors and seniors in social studies, world history and psychology, and as a survivor, educator, and a father he is deeply dedicated to the gun violence prevention movement. So, Zach, thank you so much for taking some time out of your busy schedule to join us today.
Zach: Well, thanks for having me. It's an Important topic, so happy to be here.
Caitlin: So I didn't want to do too much of the storytelling for you. Obviously, you are the person who can do the best job of letting us know what your experience was like on April 20th, 1999. So maybe you can share a little bit about that and how that has influenced your life's path?
Zach: Yeah, sure. It's kind of a two-part question, so I'll kind of start with my experience that day. And then I can kind of answer the second part about the impact that's had on my path. You know, I look back on that day, and it's now kind of a blur. I can't believe it's 25 years ago. The things that kind of stand out in my memories is kind of like a lot of being left with a lot of confusion and anger. Like kind of the big emotional things that kind of stand out from that day. As far as my experience that day, I was really blessed to be in about as safe a place as you could be that day while also being at school. So we were sitting in art class on a nice April day when the fire alarm went off and kind of in true, you know, high school fashion, trying to play it cool and not look silly in front of your friends, you kind of look around and see what everybody else is doing. I remember some of the seniors talking about it being a senior prank. It was that kind of time of year near the end of the end of the semester. And so the reality didn't really start sinking in until a student ran into the class and then yelled, like, this isn't a drill. And still at that point, still didn't sink in.
You know, this was times before school shootings were a thing that was in anybody's consciousness. So, still didn't click in then and we kind of walked out of the class, out to the exit. And that's when the reality really started to hit as you start to see injured students exiting the building, supporting each other, you saw broken glass, hearing gunshots as students were starting to kind of stream out of the school. And again, still, at that point, nothing even remotely in your thought process was going to some sort of mass shooting. That just wasn't a thing in 1999. And so as we're trying to gather information, we hear some people talking about a gang fight or something along those lines that also didn't make any sense and didn't compute with my brain at that time. We kind of stood outside the school and waited until the police arrived, and then we're notified that we were just supposed to get as far away from the school as possible. My house, the house that I grew up in, is really right next to the school. You can see it from the school. I can see it from the classroom I teach in. And so, we actually had to kind of like fence hop to get to my house with some of the students that I was with in that class, and I made our way to our house, and that kind of became kind of a spot where students who knew me, my sister was a senior at the time. A lot of her friends, we all kind of, like, congregated there because it's the closest house, the closest safe place. This is a time before cell phones.
And we just started calling, and students would call, you know, kids would call their parents to let them know they were safe. And so it became kind of this safe base for the rest of the day because the rest of the afternoon kind of unfolded. And so when I look back on my day, that was scary. It was confusing. But the kind of the worst part of the day was my sister, like I mentioned, was a senior, and she was in the choir room and as she was trying to run out of the building, gunfire down the hallway force them back into class. And so she was barricaded in a closet for roughly six hours. And again, no cell phones. No idea.
So the moment from kind of starting the clock, from leaving the school to you know, getting home and then waiting hours upon hours, then you just start getting all the rumor mill stuff of what's happening with hostages and all the kind of rumors that were taking place at that time, and just trying to wait for confirmation and hearing, you know, that your sister's alright. And so that's kind of the most, the hardest part of that day for me personally, in the sense that I feel very blessed. I think now I feel blessed. At the time, I didn't feel quite so blessed. I just got to walk out. I think I had a lot of survivor guilt. That kind of hung with me that my friends had, you know, were in different spots and had different experiences that day. But in retrospect, you know, that was that was the toughest part of my day was just kind of getting waiting to get that call from my sister that she was safe. So, we did get that call. And so that that obviously was, again, very lucky and very blessed for that. But that's kind of my experience from that day.
I think the second part of your question was kind of like, how has it impacted my life? And that's a good that's a very good question, and one that I kind of like reflect on and and think about myself. And I don't really know how to answer it. Because, you know, in a very real way, we don't get to live two different, you know, realities and, and get to know who would I be without this school shooting versus who I am today. So I don't know what choices I would have made. I think it's hugely influential. I don't think there's been many days in my life, and over the past 25 years, I haven't thought about it or impacted me in some form or fashion. And I definitely think it's a reason why I'm back at the school teaching. I think it's a huge reason why I became an educator. You know, I was I was a freshman. So we returned to the school the following year, and were back in Columbine for the next three years. And that was a really chaotic, hard time. We were kind of in the national spotlight, and everything we did was under a magnifying glass. And there is lots of different explanations as to why it happened. And so that was a really chaotic time. And so you're dealing with the trauma of the shooting itself. You're dealing with the chaos of kind of the pressure and expectations, and those types of things are kind of thrust on you as living under the microscope.
And then you have the also the other reality of just being an awkward 14, 15, 16-year old trying to navigate, you know, the stress of being a high schooler, which is in and of itself, let's be honest, it's kind of traumatic just being a teenager. So, you have all of that. And when I look back, I kept falling back to kind of my parents, my teachers, and my coaches, when, you know, I was 24, 25 years old and trying to kind of figure out what I want to do in my life and who shaped me, that's where I kept coming back to. And I think it was my parents, my teachers, and my coaches that provided that sense of safety. Oddly enough, Columbine itself became, for me personally — I don't think this is true for everybody — but the safe haven, the place where I felt most comfortable, safest. After the shooting, I think it was a lot of chaos and turmoil outside of the school. But for myself and for many of my friends, this kind of became the spot that we retreated to and; and when we were in the building, and when we were in class, and when we were in activities that's when we we got to be normal, which I think is what we were all just wanting to be was normal. And that's kind of ripped away from you, but also begs the question of kind of like, what is normal?
And so I think that influenced my desire to become an educator and play that role for other students. And played into my decision and willingness to come back and teach at Columbine, this kind of pay it back to this community that kind of literally and figuratively wrapped its arms around us and helped us kind of heal in a time period of total chaos and confusion and not knowing how to respond to a school shooting. And then we did it by just kind of like turning in on each other, and embracing each other. That's how I at least felt. And so being back at the school is kind of like jumping back into being a part of my family and, you know, kind of maintaining that and trying to create that family environment for current students who are struggling with their own hardships.
Caitlin: Yeah. I think it's important to recognize what you described with the survivor guilt, and then feeling like you could be normal back at the school where this tragedy happened is very much a breakdown of what happens psychologically in war. Right? So people leave the battlefield and go home and are, like, I don't function very well here because the people I care about and really saw some terrible things with are there. And so then a lot of them end up going back. And I'm sure there's many other layers to it as well.
But when I hear you describe that — and it makes a lot of sense — but it's also hard to think about our students, whether their elementary school or all the way up through post-secondary, having to live in that world with that sort of guilt, and then feeling the most comfortable or the most themselves back in a place where such a tragedy took place. And also the context of the timing of Columbine, right before really before cell phones were used in a large scale, especially for kids and before text messaging for sure. And even before school districts had things like reunification centers. Really, a lot has changed in 25 years. And unfortunately, a lot of it is simply because of we've had a lot more practice at these sorts of things. And then of course the impact of technology. But it is important to keep that in mind because it really does create a different scenario from what we would experience today.
Zach: Absolutely. Yeah. You never want... It's a tragedy that schools reflect war zones today, and that that psychology is still similar. I think schools are places of warmth and safety, and should be comfortable and should be places of comfort and safety and where you retreat to feel, you know, welcome and belonging, and never should be this place where, where anxiety or worry is creating this sense of fear, or that you lose that sense of warmth and community out of vigilance, you know, out of hardening a school. So that's always now that modern balance of trying to keep a school safe without losing that warmth and welcome atmosphere, is really a sad state, I think.
Caitlin: Yeah, absolutely.
Devin: And to kind of focus in on the impact afterwards. Oftentimes in the discussion of gun violence, almost all the focus is on those who die during the shootings and in the aftermath, their loved ones. And I think part of that is due to that's where the best data is. I mean, even now in 2024, like we have a firm count of the people who died during shootings, but not of injuries still. And so oftentimes we see less focus given on those who were shot but then survive. And then there's almost no focus, from what I've seen, on those who have survived the traumatic events without being physically shot. But you still have to deal with that trauma going forward. And so I'm just kind of curious about — and you touched on a bit before — but kind of the trauma going forward, and even in a way going back to where the trauma happened. But at the same time, a place that supposed to represent safety. And so I'm curious, like what the psychological costs have been and, like, kind of what you've seen on the community — the costs that don't necessarily show up on the day of, but emerge over years and even decades.
Zach: Right. I think it's, something that, I think it's interesting, I spent some time with some young activists from, you know, March for Our Lives, and all of a sudden felt kind of like the grandpa of, you know, of school shootings, unfortunately, kind of like years in advance. And I think things that kind of caught me off guard is the long, as you kind of alluded to, the long, long arc of trauma. I think post, you know, the immediacy after a shooting, there's a lot of supports, there's mental health workers there, there's access to counseling.
But really, I think a lot of people, in the way it's even kind of oftentimes thought about even from a policy standpoint, is like long term is a year after the shooting. And then what we lose is kind of that long-term perspective of everybody, of trauma doesn't just follow a schedule and it doesn't follow a calendar. And, you know, after the one-year anniversary it's not like, well, you know, we're we're past it. And so I know for myself personally, I think if you had asked my 25-year-old self, I would have thought, yeah, I processed it. Everything is good to go. And then my 35-year-old self is dropping off my two-year-old daughter at day care for the first time, and walks past a lockdown drill sign, you know, in their in their, you know, in their in their pre-K school. And I think that was outside of maybe the ten year, maybe not even the ten-year anniversary, but maybe the one-year anniversary, the one most difficult psychological kind of moments for me was sending my own kids to school and confronting that reality that 20 years, 25 years on, this is still not only a problem, but a growing problem, and one that is continuing, and one that has been failed to be addressed. And so I think that was a really big switch for myself.
And then I know a lot of my friends, it was really kind of around the 20-year mark that a lot of them were in a spot to process the trauma and seek that help. And so I think from a trauma arc, we could do a better job of understanding that long-term impact of that. And, you know, you think about some of the shootings that take place in elementary schools and with younger kids, you're marking — if you're like definition of long-term trauma is one year or five years, those students might be in fifth grade, you know. And they're supposed to have processed that and now no longer need the supports from society set up for them?
And so I think as we move forward thinking about this kind of, this problem we have, and thinking unfortunately kind of along the lines of war and having supports for the long term for health, mental health supports, and counseling, and that type of stuff, regardless of where you are is kind of a responsibility that I'd like to see society kind of take on, a greater awareness and responsibility and kind of like, as the old guy going through and, you know, marching down that road ahead of people, that's kind of looking back something that I don't think I anticipated 10, 15 years ago was the need for additional supports along then. And I think that just really speaks to the power of the impact of these types of events.
Devin: Yeah. And to kind of even expand on that for a moment, when you look at communities where it's not necessarily like one mass shooting, but like the daily toll of shootings where like with one event, as horrible as that event is, there's still the potential for a healing process afterwards over years, decades. But if your neighborhood has shootings every week, month, year like that, I don't think that healing process even becomes possible. And particularly if you're the kid growing up in that environment, like even if you yourself aren't shot, that's still gotta have massive consequences going forward.
Zach: Absolutely. Thank you. That's a hugely important point. Thanks for bringing that up. I absolutely agree with everything you just said.
Caitlin: Zach, I know you've said this a couple times already. It is really hard to believe that it's been 25 years already since April of 1999. To me, Columbine lives in my memory sort of like September 11th or the day that everything was shut down for Covid, right? Like there's sounds and smells. And I was in eighth grade, and it was April break, and I was watching the news coverage and I was like, I was so confused because as you said earlier, this just wasn't a typical thing for us.
And I wonder if you can tell us now — you started to before, talking about the difference between, you know, like the year anniversary and then dropping your a child off at daycare, off at school, which I can certainly empathize. I think I have like a nanosecond of a moment every time I watch my daughter get on the school bus where, you know, like, Oh, did I tell her I love her. You know, like, it's just that, and you don't even recognize it necessarily all the time, but it is just there. But 25 years being a long time in some ways and a short time in others. Can you tell us a little bit about how you feel looking back at what's happened in the world of gun violence and in gun violence prevention since your freshman year of high school?
Zach: Sure. I think it's a very, it is an interesting reflection. You know, I think I got to talk about a little bit about coming back here and feeling like this was my safe place, and that we kind of unified together. I think that potentially is different today. And I can't speak for others today, I can only kind of hypothesize where my response. But you know, in 1999, the after the shooting, we I think we felt like it was a natural disaster, like something that was unpredictable. You kind of prevented it. It was kind of a one off flash-in-the-pan type of event. Nothing in my mind in 1999 would have made me think that there would be a continued epidemic of these types of shootings. And so I think in for many of us, in our confusion and in our anger, we had really no place to kind of channel that. And so I think we healed by coming together and kind of trying to resolve that. And certainly we all have experienced, and many of us have different forms of responding to that trauma. But I think in large part we came together as a unit, as a unified community.
I would imagine today I would feel very different. I think that confusion and anger would be directed. I don't think that there would be much confusion of like, What's the problem here and why did this happen? You know, I think students go to school today with a very sad reality in the back of their mind that it's not an if, it's a when. And they prepare for that. And I think you see that in the way that students respond to school shootings. It's like, I've thought about this. I've written essays on it, I've researched it, I know exactly, I've played out in my mind that if this happens to me, how will I, not only what will I do in this moment, but what might I do and respond afterwards in a way that wasn't an issue in 1999.
And so I think that speaks to kind of the lack of movement in creating safer gun laws and taking steps towards, you know, common sense ways to keep, you know, guns out of the wrong people's hands. And the lack of, you know, change over 25 years. I would imagine if it happened to me today as a high schooler, I would be filled with anger. And the unfortunate side effect of that is then it's divisive. And I don't think you get the same opportunity that we had where we felt like it was an unpreventible, once-in-a-lifetime type of deal. I think that would be very different today. And that anger would be directed, in different ways.
Which I'm incredibly proud and in awe of, you know, the Parkland students for March for Our Lives and how they've taken leadership and responded. It's super inspiring. And it's incredible what they've been able to do and accomplish. And so I think that kind of speaks to the lack of movement over the last 25 years. And that was really a frustration when I realized, you know, to be really honest, I'd say right after Columbine, I felt like, who am I? I'm an individual. What can I change? Or people have tried and nothing's happened. And you know, the gun lobby's too powerful. And if it hasn't happened now, how is any change going to. And I haven't seen, you know, and fall into that kind of like typical apathy. And I'm really proud of the Parkland kids for not following that same kind of trap. And then I think it was that day that I kind of confronted dropping my kids off, that it kind of reignited that fire of, like, if there's any way that speaking or using my story or my experience can do anything, then you know, then let's go. And that's an important responsibility, and kind of change that. And so I'm hoping that some of the change that we've seen in recent years with the signing of this Safer Communities Act and some of the state level changes that we're seeing is definitely not enough, but a sign of potential change of movement. You know, Moms Demand Action are doing incredible things, and hopefully starting to get some change. And that's inspiring.
But looking back at the last 25 years is an incredibly frustrating and infuriating lack of political will on what I think should be an important social topic and political responsibility for leadership. So I don't, I can't really remember what the question was, but I hope in some form or fashion that answered it.
Caitlin: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, Devin's from Oklahoma, I'm here in Connecticut. And so for different reasons you probably won't find two people that see different ends of the spectrum, but share your frustration. You know, Devin can tell stories about some of the laws coming to be in Oklahoma that are really just, will leave your head spinning. And for me, living, you know, 20 or so minutes from Newtown, what happened here on the state level afterward, but then watching the endless amounts of cowardice down in Washington, DC after, really are a reminder that things not only move at a snail's pace when it comes to pretty mundane topics, but also when it comes to things that are responsible for saving people's lives. So we hear you for sure.
Devin: Yeah. And I have one question I had that came up when you're talking about like the 25 years and such, and you teach psychology, so that's really useful. Do you have any advice on how to prevent burnout? And like, this is something that I've personally, even though I'm not a survivor, have struggled with with doing it for ten years, where it's just looking back and it's like, well, not much. And yet we keep having all these shootings, and so it's just a perpetual bang head against a wall sort of thing. And within the gun violence prevention movement more broadly, like I know dozens of people who were in this space a decade ago or when I started getting more national involved like eight or so years ago that have just moved on because they just can't anymore. And so any advice for dealing with burnout?
Zach: I don't know if I have great advice. I don't know. I mean, it's such a great question and it's so hard because you see not only like to your point, the slow snail's pace change and even backsliding and legislation that is even in the opposite direction. And so I totally get it, and I guess I wouldn't judge anybody that does experience burnout or has dedicated time and then gets frustrated. I guess, you know, it's cliche or maybe easier said than done, but that, you know, I think hope is huge. And I think hope is going to need to remain for any change on this to take place. I think it's what has to fuel and keep people's tanks filled when there is no tangible reward, right? I mean, it'd be nice to have work pay off with huge rewards and things you can point to, and tangible moments that kind of, you know, justify in your own mind the sacrifice and the hardship and all the things you go through for something that's important and a goal. And in this case, in this space, it's even more difficult. And it's super important because it's people's lives we're talking about. And so when that's not there, it becomes super frustrating. And I totally get that. I think I was kind of in that space for a long time and then kind of that hope or... I don't know how else to describe it. A motivating hope that there will be change and whatever and however long it takes is is important.
It's kind of, you know, my best message, me personally, I would say my cup was filled with meeting the Parkland kids and March for Our Lives, it really kind of filled up that cup of hope, and was super impressive. Met with students from Sandy Hook. And that was also an incredibly powerful experience and motivating for me. And so talking with survivors, talking with people in this space has been very motivating, and I always leave more motivated than I was. So if I ever need a jolt, it's kind of like reaching back out to people in that space to kind of, you know, steal their enthusiasm. Might be a little selfish, but, yeah, I think that hope has to be there, otherwise it's very easy to fall into apathy or that jaded mindset. And then without that, the political grind in the system has kind of done its job of making it difficult and slow, and grinds that out. So, I wish I had like a technical, like psychological answer for you and say, By the textbook, here's how you prevent burnout. But I don't.
Devin: Eat these three foods to prevent burnout.
Zach: Yeah, get more sleep. That seems to be the answer to everything. So there you go.
Devin: Yeah. So one of the experiences that I had back in 2019, GVPedia hosted the conference in Denver to mark the 20th anniversary of Columbine. And during that conference, which had about 150 survivors, advocates, leaders from across the country, the fire alarm went off. And at the same time the air conditioning switched on which created this "thump thump thump thump thump thump" kind of sound. And many of the older survivors and even like some of the Parkland students kind of took it in stride, which was impressive. But there was a couple contingents of students from other schools that did not. And those were students from schools that had active shooter drills. And it was telling to see like the difference, and just seemed to stem from whether or not they had active shooter drills. So my question is, does Columbine have active shooter drills, and if so, what's that like, particularly given the history at the school?
Zach: Right. We have, we don't call them active shooter drills. So they're called lockdown drills, which I'm not a safety school safety expert, so they might be technically two different types of drills. So we don't we don't call them active shooter drills. We do lockdown drills, which is for kind of like an active shooter situation. It varies from year to year. And is different. They are cognizant of kind of our past here at Columbine. So I think they treat them a little bit differently than they do at other schools, and give us a little bit more leeway to kind of individualize it and take into account the experience here. And I think are maybe a little bit more receptive to doing things differently. Like this year, we just had to watch a video rather than go through the whole lockdown drill and process. But we've definitely practiced kind of lights out, lock the doors, out of sight.
You know, in my 13th year, doing it personally now you know, I kind of walk my way through, and do my deep breathing, and kind of focus on my task and my kids. So I have those kind of, like, coping mechanisms of checking in on your senses, and that you kind of figure out for yourself, over time, to kind of work through it. I know for some of my colleagues, like, I'm not the only teacher that was there that day that's teaching. I think there's now five or six of us here. And so they all have their different experiences. I know some colleagues take that day off, as it's just something that's, you know, too uncomfortable. It's, you know, again it's that unfortunate reminder of the reality that we're in that is brought back up to the conscious awareness of this is the reality, and so potentially common that we have to do a drill. And so I don't, you know, I don't like that, that terms. But here personally, in our experience, you know, I think they do a decent job of trying to be cognizant of our past while also meeting their mandated responsibilities. I've heard of active shooter drills in other schools that sound much more kind of, like, trauma-inducing than the ones that we experience here. And I think that begs the question of where's the research behind that? But again, I'm not like a school safety expert that would, you know, want to or feel comfortable speaking to it. But that's just my personal experience.
Devin: Yeah. And have you seen an impact on the students over your years of teaching as, like, the lockdown drills have become more of a thing, because like when I was in, I didn't go to high school technically, but even when I was like in middle school, like we didn't have anything like that. If the fire alarm went off it was a fire drill, and you go outside, which is the opposite of what you're supposed to do for a lockdown. And to your point, like, I've definitely seen those where like they'll have like fake ammunition fire where it sounds like it's real. They'll be like fake blood and such. It's like, what are you trying to accomplish here? And like, there's also kind of the point that there really isn't any solid evidence that these help when those situations come out. Like maybe teaching first aid to students would, but like the drills themselves. And also you're very likely teaching the shooter themselves in those drills. And so it doesn't it seems like kind of a grifting industry that can almost, like, it's only going to add more trauma without actually imparting actual safety.
Zach: Yeah. I mean, I think that's the struggle is figuring out what do we do to keep kids safe, and what makes sense, and what justifies the means in the process. I think with those drills, it's hard. I don't personally agree with, I think it again, is more indicative of, I see it as more indicative of like this is a reality that we're trying to solve by teaching our kids, this is how we're solving it? Like this is our part of our solution? We won't pass laws. We won't try to, you know, make it more difficult to gain access to the weapons of war that's being used in our school. But we'll take time out of the day to remind kids that this is the reality and this is part of our solution. I think that often upsets me. It's like people argue about, let's do everything we can to keep kids safe and let's drill. And we're willing to, you know, to your point of going to super lengths to make it as real as possible. But God forbid we'll, you know, take any action politically in the legal system. And so I see kind of like speaking out of two sides of the mouth. And so I think that's for me, frustrating.
And then, you know, kids today definitely come in with a very strong awareness that this is their reality. I think it's in the back of their minds, like I mentioned it. They've been doing, you know, lockdown drills and active shooter drills since preschool. So it's every year, multiple times a year. This is your reality, kids. And this school isn't as safe as you think it is, and we know it's not because we're going to do this drill. And for us, that's as an educator, always just feels like a violation of this space that you're trying to work so hard to create a loving, welcoming, warm space. And so it's hard to kind of rationalize those two things.
Devin: Yeah. I mean, the kind of basic message that's sent with them is like, we're willing to do everything to keep our kids safe except the stuff that actually works and might inconvenience gun owners.
Caitlin: Yeah. It's a reactive measure rather than being proactive. Right? And then we're putting the responsibility on our children and teachers to do the right thing, which we taught them in the lockdown drill, rather than our gun owners and the grownups in society to do the work.
Zach: And then the conversation after can be, you know, who locked their door, who didn't lock their door, who, you know, guarded the door with their body versus, you know, more larger contributing factors. So...
Caitlin: Right. We have one final question for you today, and that is what would you want anybody listening to this podcast to remember about Columbine? Whether it's something from 1999, or when you first started working there as a teacher, or even from today.
Zach: I think there's the kind of the current, you know, call it like, I love this place. This place is home. I think it did a phenomenal job of kind of recovering and supporting students. I don't know if everybody feels that way, but that certainly was my experience. I think it is like looking kind of over the 25-year scope and realizing, like, people that go through this can still live a rich and full meaningful life is a huge lesson for others who go through a school shooting, because there's definitely times in the immediate aftermath and years afterwards where being normal or feeling like you're broken, it can become a reality and define that for you. And I think, you know, I'm incredibly proud of all of the students who went through this tragedy are wonderful humans, are incredibly put together, healthy adults. And so you can experience this, you can go through trauma, and you can still live a meaningful and full life. And so reminding survivors of that and making sure they understand that, that there is hope.
I think, you know, going forward as far as, like, one of the most important things of coming out of Columbine is that, is I just look around at all my friends that that we went through this together, and what wonderful people, and lives they're leading, and parents they are becoming, and reminding other young people that experiencing gun violence, that doesn't have to, you know, that a single day, an event doesn't have to define you. It's a part of you, and it can influence you. But you can use that and still continue to find your meaning and your calling in life. And I think that's an important message for all, of all survivors to hear, because there's some dark days where maybe that doesn't feel possible or you question that as well, and you look around at the violence and wonder if that you've fallen victim beyond kind of redeemability or the ability to kind of control your own life. And I think students from Columbine have shown that they can, that you can do that. And so I think that's that's important.
Caitlin: Absolutely. And you mentioned earlier about having no tangible reward in certain scenarios, right. Whether it's fighting for a safer world based on, you know, making good choices when it comes to access to guns. But there is no question for me as as a mother in particular, but also as somebody who believes so strongly in the value of education that your tangible reward every day is those kids and your classrooms. And I see conversations happening all over the country and the world, for that matter, about teacher contracts. And, you know, we can only give them 2% raises, not 4%. Like those people jump in front of bullets for your children. Like if they want 4%, give them 10%. Give them whatever they want. Like, I can't even believe we're having these conversations.
So, I know you stated you can't see what your life would look like without having been at Columbine in 1999, but I am grateful that you chose to take the path to become an educator because you are shaping young minds, and they will leave that school and they will remember the things that you taught them. Maybe not about modern European history, but certainly about life. So that is a wonderful feeling to have as somebody who certainly can feel that hopelessness. And I just want to thank you and commend you for for all the work that you do every day. It makes endless amounts of difference.
Zach: Well, thank you so much. That means a lot and is greatly appreciated. And so thank you. Can I throw one more thing in there? Kind of circling back to Devin's point, like I, I can only speak to kind of the mass shooting, school shooting that's often sensationalized and "captured in the headlines" type of experience. But I think I would feel remiss if I didn't point out just kind of the epidemic of gun violence and who's most impacted as far as marginalized communities. And kind of, you know, the school mass shootings get a lot of the attention.
But I think we also need to discuss and focus on — and I'm sure you guys are doing it — but just recognizing that that problem, the gun violence, is oftentimes unreported and un-sensationalized; and that I didn't want to come off or shift the spotlight so much that it's just this. Hey, there it is. Just this, focus, as far as when we define gun violence, I think a lot of people's minds go to these, you know, Columbine types of shootings. And just kind of mentioning or drawing the attention back that the reality is that statistically I think it's most likely that you're gonna be impacted and it's those less covered shootings. So I don't know if that makes sense, but I always want to throw that in during these types of interviews, and make sure that I give it do justice and and recognize it and kind of, make sure that it's known that I'm speaking to a certain type of gun violence, and that's my experience.
Caitlin: Yes, absolutely. Here at GVPedia, we try to focus on lifting up voices that don't always get a platform, and also understanding that there's not only gun violence that happens in communities every day, but a lot of people who die from gun violence in this country are because of death by suicide, and that we cannot overlook either of those, even if that's not where a majority of media time is focused. So we actually have some, we're lucky to have in this space some really dedicated individuals who want to tell the story and tell the story well of gun violence that happens in communities every day, rather than either misreporting it or not reporting it at all. And then there are some survivors, we actually interviewed one a couple weeks ago who their life's mission is to say, Hey, I'm a survivor. This is my experience with the media. I want to make sure that other folks don't have this same experience.
Zach: Wonderful.
Caitlin: And so making you know that that's what fills their cup, so to speak, to use your term.
Zach: Great. Well, thank you for your guys' work so much. And I appreciate you and admire you guys.
Caitlin: You certainly are a school safety expert. And when you start Zach Martin School Safety Consulting, give us a call. We would like to be a part of your launch.
Zach: Well, I plan to be a teacher. So I don't know when that's gonna happen.
Caitlin: Alright, fair enough, fair enough. You have enough on your plate, I'm sure. But thank you so much again, and we look forward to hearing more about the great work that you're doing, and we really appreciate you.
Zach: Appreciate you as well. Thank you so much for your time in this conversation.
Zach Martin with wife Shelby.
Image of Columbine High School sign by Cosmo Spacely, via Flickr.